CONCLAVE, from middle French and Latin, meanin', "Y'all ain't gettin' outa heah, cause we has the key (clave) Might as well git to work."
Where? Sistine Chapel, Vatican City, Rome, Italy.
By Tradition it's held in the Sistine Chapel, but Pope John Paul II made it part of papal law, an' the ballot box is right under the Judgment. Jes' a wee reminder for whom ya' does yore best.
Ya' mean they sleep in thar.? No....they's escorted back to their sequestered dormitory, Domus Marthae. Not exactly lux digs,
'tis a specially built an' digitally secure lodging. Pope John Paul II had this dorm built so that they din't have to sleep on cots an' use chamber pots--no, really. An' it is debugged and has hovercraft (or somethin') above it to jam all communications so's as to keep Aunty from whisperin' "SCOLA!!" in they ears. Thay ain't allowed no computers, phones, radios, walkie talkies, soup cans wif' wires..under pain of excommunication (no foolin') .
This is a smoke signal only event.
Longest papal conclave: 33 months, in 1286. Folks grew so aggravated they smashed in the roof of buildin' so rain would hurry the process. then reduced the cardinals to bread an' water. ( Before Sistine Chapel wuz built.) Result? Gregory X-- who then decreed that henceforth jes' one plate of vittles a day would be allowed until the conclave concluded.
Shortest: several times in the 1100's the new Pope was elected in jes' a day....hmmmn...so thas' why thar's an interregnum ("between reigns", a time out before a conclave may begin). Pope Benedict XVI wuz elected post haste by conclave standards wif' a simple majority as allowed by rules John Paul II put in place (now returned to a 2/3 vote via Benedict).
Who's eligible? Any baptized Catholic male. Thas' the rule, but the practice? Well, last time a non-cardinal got the White Robe wuz a monk, Urban VI in 1378.
Does they have to be Italian? Shure do help to at least be fluent in Italian. But, no. Benedict wuz Bavarian, John Paul II wuz Polish, Adrian VI were a Dutchman, Gregory III, he be a Syrian. 'Course, Peter wuz from Israel.
Who votes? Only the Cardinals--an' then only iffin' they's under 80 on the day the current Pope dies -- or resigns : ( .
This time around thas' 115 cardinals an the requires 2/3 to elect is 77.
How do they vote? The votes is done twice in the mornin', twice in the afternoon. Written by hand, unsigned, folded twice, an' ya gotta walk yore own vote up under Christ in Judgment to place it in the box...three counters, a tally then if no majority, them votin' papers is burned. Black smoke. 'Cept on Tuesday, the first day, when they's only gonna be one vote, in the afternoon.
Does Aunty want an American Pope? Merciful heavens, Spare Us Oh Lord!
Whomever it be, this new man will need yore prayers--some have turned it down, ya' know.
(As a rule, the idea is to find a man that is right fer the times--what is the most urgent need of the 1.3 billion Catholics? An' fer clarification on all that claptrap put out by CNN an NBC the pope ain't gonna ordain wimmen, or allow abortion or any number of other "modernizations" proposed by American networks. How come? Well, simply because the Pope ain't got that sort of authority--he has a boss, ya' see. I knows it's hard for some folks to git this after listenin' to the news, but the pope himself doan even think he has such power, cause these doctrines be anchored in truths that no pope invented so he cain't he undo 'em. )
An' NO, Pope Benedict XVI wuz not the target of some conspiracy--his own actions in the last six months indicate he planned fer this--strong an' certain moves on a chess board. Plain truth is iffin' a pope is infirm too long, a nest of bureaucrats try to rule by default. No final voice an' rule by committee is a disaster.
Benedict is short circuiting that whole mess. He done lost so much weight in last few months that the tailors wept. Reckon he must be physically frail enough that those grueling 15 hour days ain't possible.
How Can the new Pope git dressed in all that regalia in 40 minutes after the smoke an' bells iffin' somebody doan already know the chosen fella? Heh... see, they's been doin' this a few thousand years so, it's down to a science:
The papal tailors, Gammarelli, sew up three sets of vestments - small, medium and large. They's already been delivered: a white cassock, a white silk sash, a white zucchetto (skullcap), red leather shoes and a red velvet mozzetta or capelet with ermine trim. The Pope dresses by his ownself, puts on his a gold-corded pectoral cross and a red embroidered stole. (Popes used to wear red ( symbol of martyrdom), but when a Dominican St Pius V, cam on board in 1566-- he wuz Pope after all-- so his first papal decision were to keep his Dominican whites. These days, only the Pope's red mozzetta, capelet and shoes is red. The red Shoes is Prada, BTW, gratis, of course, since it gives the shoe company a big PR coup.
DO Aunty have the inside scoop? Or does she rely on Paddy?
I spent the last few days wif' a gaggle of bishops in Washington, but they ain't got no edge on Aunty, meanin' none has an edge.
Still....the fellas I most admire is prayin' fer Cardinal Scola of Milan, formerly the Patriarch of Venice. He taught in US fer a spell so his English is good, an' his grasp of thangs American is decent. But more to it, he is an expert on Islam--reckon we's gonna need that, but mostly? He's a top theologian. Doan know nuthin' 'bout no charismatic personality, an doan care-- gimme a fella wif' courage an' wisdom an' I'll pass on media charm. In the end, though, we's all prepared fer a surprise.
Do Aunty have the Pope Alarm app? Is the Pope Catholic?
42 comments:
But what if they name a bad guy?
Oh we's had THAT. The whole "infallible" thang is misunnerstood.
It doan mean impeccable--that is, it doan mean the man is good or holy or nuthin'....(we HOPE so, but thas not part of infallible) See, the infallible part only applies to papal teachings on faith an' morals ( not economics or the environment) --sorta a "do what I say, not what I do" thang.
Catholics believe the Holy Spirit protects the Church in that narrow confine: the Church does not teach error when she invokes the infallible designation for a teaching ( which ain't done all that often) Even if the pope who promulgates (hands down) the teaching is very fallible as a person the teaching itself is correct. ( infallible ain't a person, it's an office) This is admittedly tough to swallow iffin' y'ain't into the work of the Holy Spirit. But it shure has worked fer 2000 years. Bad guys? yep. But no teaching declared under the infallible designation has ever been in error. Whew!
huh. what was the deleted comment?
I have to disagree with you Aunty on your choice. A guy who is an expert on Islam? Tell me, can Islam do more damage than Monsanto? so far, no. We are facing biological genocide as well as our OWN oppressive political system, and sociopathic corporations who seek to commodify every natural resource on Earth. Health care is actually a sickness management system for profit, and the entire earth is sick.
I like the guy from the netherlands who is a bioethisist. Thats what is needed. SOmeone with the authority as God's rep on Earth, to say "enough of this tinkering around with God's creation". Not that it wills top the blood suckers/
that was funny the link to paddys. you place a bet?
I liked your pope trivia. That's stuff you don't hear on TV. So how do they make the black smoke? I like to think it's old tires from the pope mobile. Bwahaha
I hope they elect someone a little younger this time (Pope Benedict was 76 when elected - how long did they think he would last?) and more open to change. The Catholic Church seems to be losing priests, nuns and congragation in droves. And from what I've heard from people I talk to, it's the sex abuse stuff. The new pope has to address and correct this problem.
Q: Why was Pope Benedict XVI not allowed to fly into the United States?
A: He wanted to bring more than 3 oz of holy water with him! (see what I did there - pope and TSA joke rolled into one - ba-dump-bump)
I must say I agree with everyone.
We have plenty of BIG issues that need some attention!
The rise of Islam is not the problem, the rise of radical Islam certainly is.
The death of dogs and humanity from the altered food sources and water contaminations is a ginormous, urgent issue.
I also agree we need a younger Pope. Certainly one supported by the best theologians but not necessarily a theologian himself. I think Buzz brings up a relevant issue; we do need a Pope who can sustain a bond with the millions who are not gray haired Catholics. We do not need to get new dictates from liberal television,we absolutely do need to address the worldwide impression of papal protectionism of prurient priests.
One of the good benefits of this age of information is we get to know promptly what the smoke signals are proclaiming. As to that old question " Is the Pope Catholic?" It surely would be a new wrinkle if he was not.
As a recovering Catholic I have to say that the church has lost many because it has failed to modernize. Yes, The Pope is governed by a higher being (aren't we all) but that doesn't mean he can't make decisions that benefit the faith. Let priests marry!!! It is not the complete answer I realize but the faith has lost so many men who would be great leaders of congregations because of this absolute nonsense. How many children would have not been abused? How many members would have stayed? How many more would have joined?
On a side note, one of my most treasured possessions is a parchment from the Vatican with my name on it that reads "His holiness John Paul II paternally imparts a special Apostolic Blessing to MRM as a pledge of continued divine protection. " The protection part has come in real handy more than once.
Alas, but I must take my soapbox somewhere else.
Chick9',
I'se ok wif' the bioethicist, but it ain't gonna be no help to smash in' Monsanto. Looky, the Pope already done tole the world to lay off cloning humans an' monkeying with nature in unnatural ways...science should proceed to uncover the wonder of what God has made, the search fer the rules of how it all hangs together...but to violate the principles is anathema, an, no one listened. They woman listen on Monsanto either, cause they hope to make a buck or control a significant chunk of life. I could make a comment 'bout how apocalyptic Monsanto is, but then yore poor ole Aunty would be jeered. Thang is, few has read the Book of Revelations.
BuzzK,
The Vatican technicians is supposed to have set up a separate chimney this go around -- good thang as it is raining...and they say its will rain all week, so the black smoke will hardly be noticed. Listen fer the bell.
As fer open to change, depends....somet
Things they ain't authorized to change, such a male only priesthood. Other huge changes have been made, but not in areas Americans think pertinent to the. As for losing priests in droves, this is true in liberal dioceses. The more orthodox bishops done had to build bigger seminaries. Young vocations are up for religious orders that retained their order's habits. But I hear ya' we's been through a long dry spell...the history shows that where the liturgy is flaccid so are vocations. Benedict changed a hunk of that. So...some hope. As for losing congregations ( and see Fishy's lament on young folks)
This be a big problem for a small part of the Church- us westerners. The Church in Africa, China! India and Southeast Asia is bursting. Thang is, our US bishops have yet to figger out how to help Catholics navigate the militant secularism we live in-- most want the church to conform to 'Murika, rather than take gospel to 'Murika.
Heh...soon that woan be the problem, nope, the problem is gonna be finding feast days on the liturgical calendar for all the coming American martyrs, cause our US bishops persecution right heah at home --sooner rather than later. HHS mandate is a trickle, the tsunami is domain'. So, ah, Let's roll!
Ack!!!! Thas' book of Revelation ( singular ) and woan, not woman ...this auto correct apple core toy makes me nuts!
Ack ack!! @Buzz, meant to type, our bishops SEE persecution right heah at home, an' the tsunami is a ' comin'.
Will git to other comments when I can git to a real computer.sorry.
Black smoke at 7:41 pm Rome time, Auntie.
I stopped worrying about Islam when I realized by the time they get here they will be facing a nation of machete wielding la razas on meth. Europes leaders are on the hook for the problem of Islam colliding with western civ, and I expect nothing less out of our political class.
Watching like an hawk.
Does Aunty want an American Pope? Merciful heavens, Spare Us Oh Lord!
A-Men!
Fishy,
yep. big problems, but tis usually the case, I reckon. Imagine the gatherin' storms of the French Revolution. I does decry the plight of our younguns. The World Youth days draw millions upon millions--an' thas' a wonderous thang--how them kids relate to the Old Pope. Alas, too often at home their own bishop or pastor is harried, indifferent or whatever to insure a dynamic exchange wif' kids an' young adults. Seems to me that the response of American and European kids--most is pretty spoiled--is to the call to radical conversion
--but they ain't hearin' that from home, only from Rome. Few priests look a kid in the eye an tells 'em, "you can be a saint. Toughest gig in the world, but ya' can do it. An' ya should!"
MRM,
howdy! Glad to see ya'. Yep, a twitter account prolly ain't modern enough. Some thangs bear a hard look-see. In our diocese we have several married priests--Episcopalian priests who converted, then went through the process to be a Catholic priest. They have families an' guess who it is that say celibacy is better fer priests? The Episcopal wives!
Seems the rubber meets the road when the poor priest has a daughter starring in her first play, but dad/ Priest misses it because he is a the bedside of a dying parishioner--it's the divided loyalties thang. Jesus Himself said celibacy is "for the kingdom." The funny thang is that the celibate priesthood is a strong tradition, but it ain't doctrine. That is, the Church could change the rule wif'out fudging the dogmas. But, from the old days, since priests wuz often persecuted and martyred, the idea wuz that to watch yore family suffer wuz jes' too much. suffer yoreself, but it is inhuman to ask the man to watch his family be roasted on a spit.
AN' oddly, on the matter of celibacy maybe preventing abused chillens, thang is, the cases of priests abusing little girls is exceedingly rare. 99.5 % of the cases of abuse were homosexual ephebophilia --that is preference for adolescent boys (14-18). Married priests wouldna done much fer that disgustin' horror.
But the fact of many good married men who have much to offer is a real important factor--let's hope the recent increase in the number of married deacons at least partially addresses that.
MRM,
oh! wait now--that Apostolic blessin'? WOW!!
Anon,
thanky. Let's hope we git white smoke tomorry afternoon--I ain't all that fond of suspense. I prefer Cracker history (previous post)
Chick'ry,
heh..Razas on meth wif' machetes. Ahahaha! Catchy, like Lucy in the sky wif' diamonds.
Hate to add fuel to yore smolderin' ire, but has ya seen that revolting story on the 2800 pigs found in the river what provides drinkin' water to Shanghai?? Gag! Oh, but chinese offcials say "don't worry, the water is safe for humans 'cause only pigs die of pig viruses."
Doom!!
hey hey! Like a hawk. Heh. Nope--doan need no American cardinals to git the nod--makes me shiver. Well, akshully, Burke might be a good call. Cdl George has the wisdom an' courage, but he has health issues.
Thang is we Americans think the Church should americanize--dear heavens. The Church has ONE mission--preach the gospel, in season an out. Tell it straight, take the blows when folks balk. The stuff of earth is ephemeral, eternity is forever. Some thangs-- folks need to know-- ain't a game.
Folks, thar's a lotta nervous nellies out thar'--most likely we'll git us a known quantity but never count out a wild card, as John Paul II wuz.
More black smoke, AB.
Okay! You happy with this outcome? He says he is big into "simplicity and humility". I can go with that. Nice to have a south american where the faith is stronger. I was hoping for an african actually - they have more experience with persecution in this century and also have first hand knowledge of being plundered and crushed by money manipulators, the UN, corporations, etc. Looking forward to his first words.
Chick'ry
I dunno. He is a gifted theologian, but,,, yeeeee, a Jesuit? Of course I LOVE ole timey Jebbies, ya know I has a DEAR dead friend who is a well know Jesuit. But. Let's face it--the Jesuits of modern years are not Sons of Ignatius' heart. Those who are good have been persecuted by the bad within, even by their Father General. Sorry to say, but thas' a fact.
But....when a Jesuit is good? Nothin' like 'em. They's intellectual, an if one is also in love with God? look out--awesome.
This one has refused to live in the Cardinal's mansion in Buenos Aires, but lives in a small house, rides a bike to work--hmmnnn. Most important, he ain't curia, so they will be caught short--Ahaha!!
We'll see.
Oh, an of course, he is ORTHODOX on doctrine, Alleluia!
I reckon you were glued to the tv just a while ago. I know I was glued to the tv in a waiting room. And just right after the cardinal came out I was called in to my appointment for my annual mammogram....
Foamy!!
ya' doan know GLUED , like the glued Aunty been today. Mercy.
Hope yore Mam's is tip top shape. Heh.
Thankfully, the... thing is done. It looks like we dodged another bullet with this pope... I hope, pray. But he only has one lung, I sort of worry about that part.
Oh, I agree, I am sure there are American cardinals who don't want to push the American agenda. Just, on average, I... just wouldn't bet on it. Certainly not from the crowd pushing for an American pope.
I love American exceptionalism, I do. I just don't think that works in everything everywhere, either. It is almost the opposite of Catholicism, which makes being an American Catholic a very interesting proposition. And yet, one of those truly did lead to the creation of the other, ideologically. Both have their place. One temporal, one eternal though in the temporal plane. Like peanut butter and chocolate, they go well together when combined lightly, but when truly mixed it is nauseating (in my opinion).
Doom?
Sir, ya knows yore stuff. Very impressive.
Yep, the one led to t'other. Truth is, fer us to be the best American we can be, requires bein' the best Catholic we can be--thas' how to be an American Catholic, Aunty believes.
I think Pope Francis will be just who we need now.
It's purty simple in the end--the nation that holds the gosples as the ideal of basic morals is a nation that builds a healthy society.
Oh, Aint B, I'se so sorry, but I ain't right up t' snuff right now an' m' eyes kinda glazed over 'bout halfway through your thoughtful ruminatin'. I like the new guy already, though, coz he done said there won't be no communion for no baby killers. That's as it should be and should have been all along. No compromise with evil. I hope this is a sample of his pontificationicitousness... uh... how things are gonna be under his guidance.
Sounds like the type who will generate plenty of interesting work for years to come. I hope he lasts.
As you can probably imagine, I was no fan of his predecessor, having read about him from my usual sources before he rose to and during his papacy. Francis seems much more palatable in his prepapal days.
I think a Jesuit is pretty neat, esp. an Aunty-approved Orthodox Jesuit. Proofed and indexed a book recently on Anthony DeMello, who I suspect Aunty has no truck with.
PS: I responded to your comment about my son and eyes and such, including an invitation. . . .
Czar? No fan of Ratzinger? Really?
Goodness me, have you read his work? HIS work? not the commentary on his work?
Well, heh....reckon we's at about par. DeMello is a heretic. An' I'se read him afore I said that.
As fer Pope Francis, this will be a fun one to watch--not mah first choice, but intriguin'. I lean toward thinkers too much, mayhap, an' this one is more of a doer--an no slouch in the thinkin' department. He has written enough to git a grasp of the his mind. AN since there ain't no dumb jesuits, mayhap he has a enough cerebrum fer the work ahead. : ) Of course, the wolves will come .
Sophie Mae,
heh...me too.
Thar's a whole heap of high irony in his bein' tagged Pope-- more to glaze yore eyes:
the inside family bickerin' is that the Jesuits used to be the wolfhounds of the pope ( to keep at bay the wolves after the sheep, flock of the shepherd), in that they took a fourth vow: In addition to the normal vows of poverty, chastity, obedience, an' obedience to the Pope as regards missions ( If the Pope sends you, you go)
Well, ole timey Jesuits (A male order that is the largest in Catholicism.) were jes' swell--fearless missionaries, incomparable educators...but the modern ones is riddled wif' all manner of modernist idiocy (Jon Sobrino ,etc.0
AN worse, they persecute the faithful Jesuits by sendin' them into isolated backwaters--where, of course, God hones them into saints.
Well, I digress. Anyhoo....the South American Jesuits done got snippy wif' Bergoglio (Pope Francis) when he refused to go along wif' their rubbish, so they banished Bergoglio to the Argentine hinterlands...until Pope John Paul II found him an made him a bishop, then archbishop.
Aha! now the weasles are surely gnashin' they teeth.
Aunty: Even given my previous comment, I have no doubt at all that the emeritus pope was a brilliant and dedicated theologian and enforcer of the faith. "Brilliant and dedicated" can apply to a bunch of people I probably disagree with . . . Aunty.
And I had/have no pros or cons about DeMello, other than having collected a few coins to proof and index a biography written by his brother. Well, actually a con: He sounded like an absolute jerk, although I doubt that's the takeaway his brother intended.
Although I am a fan of yours.
For Chick'ry who wants a nature lover pope, take heart:
"At the election, I had beside me the archbishop emeritus of São Paulo and also prefect emeritus of the congregation for the clergy, Cardinal Claudio Hummes: a great friend, a great friend! When the thing was becoming a bit dangerous, he comforted me. And when the votes rose to two thirds, the usual applause came, because the pope had been elected. And he embraced me, he kissed me and said: 'Do not forget the poor!' And that word entered here: the poor, the poor. Then I thought of the wars, while the scrutiny continued, until the last of the votes. And in this way the name came, in my heart: Francis of Assisi. He is for me the man of poverty, the man of peace, the man who loves and cares for creation; at this time we as well have with creation a relationship that is not so good, no? He is the man who gives us the spirit of peace, the poor man... Ah, how I would like a Church that is poor and for the poor!”
Czar,
I'se charmed to be in a remote periphery of the same category as B16' would that it were so. Sigh.
Yes, Benedict is dedicated, and a dedicated enforcer, though always with much gentleness....do you not enforce grammar? Seek better use of verbs, curb the run-on sentences and measure out more frugally the adjectives, in the hope of saving decent prose and the beauty of the language?
great comment thread Aunty, thanks for reminding me how great bloggin can be. Your comment at 11:15 was great reading. I laughed out loud at this
AN worse, they persecute the faithful Jesuits by sendin' them into isolated backwaters--where, of course, God hones them into saints.
what a great notion about place and spirit.
Aunty: Some writers respond to editorial enforcement better than others. Many Catholics, from what I've read, weren't wild about Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope B16's interpretations or methodology or any number of things.
And of course, I know that you disagree with them. That's what makes a horse race, right?
My own orthodoxy revolves around style manuals -- much easier to enforce and far less riding on it.
But I can't imagine being an editor in an environment such as Catholic theological doctrine at the very top, when every jot and tittle is informed by 2000 years of study and practice. Aren't there some rites still awaiting English translation after a decade or two? I would imagine it's an issue of editorial interpretation/enforcement.
If I ever can get past my current/perpetual work crunch, I'll start my press and have the czarist imprimatur.
Hey Chick9!
Happy to see ya' again youse been missed. An' real pleased ya got a wee chuckle.
Czar
True, an' I reckon them authors that accept a bit of editorial
Polish have better books an' become better authors. Aunty is rooting fer ya, a Czarist Press, oh yes!!!!
Duller just reminded me that another college pal entered the priesthood, as well. He believed this one ended up a Monsignor. I searched his name and found it preceded by Rev. Fr. (I think Duller dreamed the Msr thing.)
Sophie, does ya know youse a stitch?
Granny Cracker had herself a wolfhound...gentle thang, until ya heard her Hound of the Baskerville howl...t'would curl yore toenails.
Wow, Duller must have a fine inner compass...to have collich buddies that knowed the score about life so early on...not say in' the kept to it---pray in' they did-- but Duller has keen sense.
Today is the day of rest...sit in yore rocker fer a spell.
Aunty, Pope Francis, if he follows his namesake, will keep the liturgy tighter than most of the Jebbies in the USA.
Francis of Assisi to his friars:
To all the custodians of the Friars Minor to whom this letter shall come, Brother Francis, your servant and little one in the Lord God, greetings with new signs of heaven and earth which are great and most excellent before God and are considered least of all by many religious and by other men.
I beg you more than if it were a question of myself that, when it is becoming and you will deem it convenient, you humbly beseech the clerics to venerate above all the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Name and written words which sanctify the body. They ought to hold the chalices, corporals, ornaments of the altar, and all that pertain to the Sacrifice as precious. And if the most holy Body of the Lord is left very poorly in any place, let It be moved by them to a precious place, according to the command of the Church and let It be carried with great veneration and administered to others with discretion... And in every time you preach, admonish the people about penance...And whenever It is being sacrificed by the priest on the altar and It is being carried to any place, let all the people give praise, honor, and glory to the Lord God Living and True on their bended knees. And let His praise be announced and preached to all peoples so that at every hour and when the bells are rung praise and thanks shall always be given to the Almighty God by all the people through the whole earth.
Sound modern Jesuit-strip-it-bare to you?
Anon,
thanks, thas'good to know--wuzn't too worriet 'bout that, but I do wish he'd put on the red shoes--maybe jes' waitin' fer the shoemaker to deliver the right size?
Red shoes = blood of the martyrs. Put 'em on, please.
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